Prince Andrew Epstein Scandal Interview: Body language and statement analysis
When Husband (Lee) asked me recently whether I’d be analysing Prince Andrew’s body language, I said, I couldn’t because I’ve been time-poor, organising our new workshops/events in January–be sure to check them out if you’re in Perth, Australia. Next thing, Lee was analyzing it for me! Thank you Husband ❤️.
Lee learned everything about nonverbal communication through me and I have to say, he’s great at it. I’m not taking credit for this, because it’s easy to learn—the hardest part is in learning to observe and in practise, without that, the knowledge goes nowhere.
Lee claims I’m better, but there are some things he picks up on and I don’t—and vice versa. I tend to focus on the face, while Lee focuses on the body. It’s impossible to focus on both the body and face together, therefore, together we make a killer team!
He analysed over 40 minutes, and found so many red flags it was jaw-dropping! I’m going to select the bits that are the most significant, otherwise, I’ll be writing and you’ll be reading forever. Here’s the video…
Prince Andrew & the Epstein Scandal: The Newsnight Interview - BBC News
As I look through Lee’s giant list of red flags, there are many behaviours which come up in the interview over and over again, so I’ll start by listing these nonverbal behaviours and their meanings.
Common Nonverbal Behaviours and their Meanings
Eyelid Flutter
A sign of high cognitive load, which usually comes with overwhelming emotion and/or stress. It’s an ‘oh my gosh!’ or ‘wtf’ moment, usually seen when somebody is struggling to gather their thoughts or find the right words. When you see this, know that the brain is in turmoil, the person is struggling. It’s an involuntary reaction, so seeing this shows genuine emotion–it can’t be concealed.
Incongruent Head Shake or Nod
Any behaviour which shows an incongruence with spoken words is significant and points towards deception. However, a head shake can be misleading, because sometimes it reflects the person's thoughts, which could be different from what they are answering. This sounds confusing, I’ll give you an example… A head shake is common when talking about something traumatic, but while saying something affirmative. This comes from disbelief of the situation. As an example, Kellie from The Thank You Project says, “His dad loved him so much”, while shaking her head. The head shaking stemming from disbelief at what happened (husband died instantly in a car accident), as opposed to her being deceptive. It’s very common to see a disbelief headshake while people say something affirmative, so we need to be careful not to always assume deception.
There can be cultural differences with head shaking and nodding too, although, there is some evidence that bonobos, our close relatives, shake their heads to communicate negative, suggesting it could be universal.
Eye Block
An eye block shows dislike–we want whatever the source of dislike is, to disappear, so we close our eyes momentarily. It looks like a long blink. When young children are faced with something they dislike, often they cover their eyes with their hands. This is an innate behaviour that even congenitally blind children display (children who are born blind). As children grow up they learn to conceal their emotions, modifying behaviours to fit in with social norms. So by the time we are adults, the behaviour has adapted to a more discrete behaviour, less likely to give away our true emotion.
Shoulder Shrug
These are involuntary so represent genuine emotion.
Double Shoulder Shrug (both shoulders)
This means the person has confidence or believes in what they are saying, pointing towards the truth–or what they believe to be the truth.
Single Shoulder Shrug (one shoulder)
This means the person isn’t so confident in what they are saying, pointing towards deception. But it’s not always significant. Significance depends on what the person is talking about when they use it. For example, it can be present when someone is giving a statistic which has been rounded up/down, so it isn’t exact, not quite the truth, but it’s easier to remember or say. Often we see this when for whatever reason there is additional information to give, but it’s not the right time to say it. An example is when someone has limited time and needs to get the gist across–there’s more too it, but they need to take a short cut.
Prince Andrew Body Language & Statement Analysis
1:04
Eyelid flutter, while explaining he met Epstein through Epstein’s girlfriend in 1999. Although not significant in the grand scheme of things, my concern here is that something is not right for him to have such a reaction–remember this is emotional turmoil/high cognitive load. We have to ask ourselves—Why could explaining how he met Epstein or mentioning Ghislaine Maxwell (Epstein’s girlfriend, British socialite and daughter of publishing tycoon and fraudster Robert Maxwell) create such a reaction?
I have a feeling there is more going on here surrounding Prince Andrew’s relationship with Epstein’s girlfriend. What’s interesting is he also shakes his head when he says, “I’ve known her since she was at university in the UK”. Perhaps this isn’t a truthful statement and he knew her before this. Maybe there’s something surrounding Prince Andrew’s relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell, that if known, would cause another scandal. 🧐
2:45
Incongruent headshake, as he states “… but then after I got married I was very happy”. Followed by a single shoulder shrug (not confident in his statement) as he says, “I’ve never really felt the need to go party”. There are more eyelid flutters here too.
5:05
Note, at this point, Prince Andrew’s thumbs are up in a steepling position, indicating positive emotion and wisdom.
Emily Maitlis
“We now know, that he was and had been procuring young girls for sex trafficking.”
Prince Andrew’s thumbs withdraw (dislike/discomfort) and his fingers interlock, indicating negative emotion and heightened stress. His head moves backwards slightly, a distancing behaviour. He’s not comfortable with the statement and wants to distance from it psychologically. His blink rate increases and he licks his lips, two more indicators of stress.
Prince Andrew
“We now know that. At the time there was no indication (congruent head shake) to me (emphasis on words ‘to me’, short eyelid flutter, pause), or anybody else (eyelid flutter), that that was what he was doing.”
What’s interesting here from a statement analysis perspective, is that that he specifies there was no indication “to me”, pausing before following with, “or anybody else”.
If it was going on somebody must have had an indication of it—all of those involved for starters, therefore, “or anybody else” is a deceptive statement full stop.
The fact that he states “to me” indicates there is another option (“anybody else”) in his mind when he said, “to me”. An honest statement would sound more like “there was no indication that that was what he was doing”. Typically, when people are being honest, they usually take the shortest route to say it.
“And certainly (eyelid flutter), when I saw him either in the United States (pause, false start), or no, when I saw him in the United States ( 🚩 corrects himself), or when I was staying in his houses in the United States (eyelid flutter), there was no indication, absolutely no indication” (eye block/dislike 🚩).”
Notice he specifically references the US alone. What’s interesting is the photograph of Prince Andrew with the accuser was taken in Ghislaine Maxwell’s townhouse in London. It’s also interesting that he specifically mentions, “in his houses in the US”. His first statement, “in the United States” should cover Epstein’s houses, without having to mention houses specifically.
Also note, after his first statement, “when I saw him either in the United States”, Prince Andrew corrects himself, without the ‘either’ or reference to other places. There are plenty of red flags here, he’s being picky about where there ‘was no indication’, suggesting things were going on in some locations, outside the US or Epstein’s homes.
“And if there was (gulp, pause, change in speech direction/false start 🚩). You have to remember that at the time (steepling thumbs/hands), I was Patron of the NSPCC’s Full Stop campaign ( 🚩qualifying statement so we think more highly of him/have more trust) and was close up 🚩with what was going on in those, um, ah, (slight change in direction) time about getting rid of abuse to, to children, so I knew what was (🚩 false start), what the things were to look for but I never saw them.”
“And if there was”, suggests an alternative was in Prince Andrew’s mind. This is a huge red flag. He’s suggesting there could have been an indication that something was going on, even though he has just said there wasn’t. What was he going to say next, before he changed his direction in speech to cover up, whilst throwing in a qualifying statement?
I can’t ignore that, “close up” seems wrong here. Typically we’d hear “I was well up”, “I was knowledgable” or “I knew”. Was, “close up” used becasue he was involved?
There are a number of red flags within the statements we’ve just looked at. Prince Andrew is making an attempt to be very careful about how he says things. How many of these false starts are him being careful about phraseology and how many are slips of the tongue. When people are experiencing high levels of stress and a high cognitive load (as indicated by a large number of eyelid flutters), they are more likely to slip up. There is simply not enough capacity left to think clearly.
I should add that the overriding emotional expression is fear, as seen in the activation of the upper eyelids. As a result, we see more of the whites of his eyes. There are also twitches in his mouth at times indicating fear, in which the mouth stretches outwards at the sides, both, when closed and when talking.
6:16
Emily Maitlis
“Just for the record, you’ve been on his private plane”
Emily Maitlis
“you’ve been to stay on his private island”
Prince Andrew
“Yes” (eyelid flutter and eye block 🚩)
Emily Maitlis
“You’ve stayed at his home in Palm Beach?”
Prince Andrew
“Yes”
Emily Maitlis
“You’ve visited Ghislaine Maxwell’s house in Belgravia in London ?”
Prince Andrew
“Yes” (significant eyelid flutter 🚩)
Epstein’s private Island and Ghislaine Maxwell’s house in London are the two, out of four, places mentioned, where Prince Andrew has significant involuntary nonverbal reactions. Good on you Emily for mentioning these places one by one. And thanks Prince Andrew for enlightening us as to where we should dig deeper to seek the truth. That said, there is already photographic evidence of Prince Andrew and his accuser at Ghislaine Maxwell’s house in London.
7:10
Emily Maitlis
“He never discussed with you the fact that an arrest warrant had been issued?”
Prince Andrew
“No”
As Prince Andrew says, “No”, his cluster of nonverbal behaviours are almost comical. I’m tempted to say this is an outright lie, but to stay true to what I always say—that nonverbal behaviour can only guide us to the truth, without directly indicating a lie—I can’t say it!
We see a series of eyelid flutters in between an extreme high blink rate (stress indicator) and an exaggerated head shake—Prince Andrew’s deliberate attempt to signal, “No”.
We also see a movement in his mouth, which I suspect is a self-soothing/pacifying gesture, ironically, his tongue in cheek (right cheek)—if it isn’t his tongue, he’s biting on his cheek.
8:17
Emily Maitlis
“He was released in July, within months, by December 2010, you went to stay with him at his New York mansion. Why? Why were you staying with a convicted sex offender?”
Prince Andrew’s tongue juts out momentarily as Emily Maitlis says, “New York mansion”. This is distinct from a lip lick (a stress indicator). A tongue jut is seen when we make a mistake or slip up, or when we think we’ve got away with something. I’m guessing the former in this case.
As she finishes her question, Prince Andrew’s head moves back once again, as he physically and psychologically distances from the question.
Prince Andrew
“Right. I have always, er (false start), ever since this has happened (eye blocking and gesturing as if to go back), and since this has become, um, as it were public knowledge that I was there, I have questioned myself as to why did I go and what was I doing and was it the right thing to do (microexpression of contempt).”
Hang on–stop right there! Prince Andrew just specified he’s questioned himself whether it was the right thing to do “since this has become… public knowledge”. I would expect anyone to question whether it was the right thing to do, regardless of whether it was public knowledge or not. The fact that he specifically states, “since this has become public knowledge”, is very telling. This is especially the case for ‘a person’ (that’s me using distancing language) that is in such a position of power and privilege—whose existence is funded by taxpayers money. Is my anger showing?
“Now I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him, that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together”
Again, stop right there—“inappropriate for us to be seen together”! Really? No other reason than the public shouldn’t see them together? Nothing about Epstein doing the wrong thing and not wanting to be a part of that?
Prince Andrew can step out of his shoes, with the awareness of how the public would view this, but doesn’t seem to view Epstein’s behaviour as being out of order. If his moral standards are on par with Epstein’s, it’s more likely he’d indulge in the same behaviours.
10:05
Emily Maitlis
“What did he say when you told him that you were breaking up the friendship?”
Prince Andrew
Eyelid flutter.
“He was what I would describe as understanding. Erm, he didn’t go into any great depth (single shoulder shrug/not confident in what he’s saying 🚩), um, in the conversation about what I was doing, what he was doing (corrects himself 🚩).”
That’s an interesting verbal slip! What were you doing Prince Andrew?
“Um, except to say that, that, er, (incongruent head shake), er, he’d accepted whatever it was—a plea bargain he’d served his time, um, and, er, he was carrying on with his life. Excuse me. And I said yes, but I’m afraid to say that, that, that, that, that’s as, may be, um, but with all the attendant scrutiny on me, then I don’t think it is a wise thing to do.
This reaffirms his earlier statement, that his sole concern was how it would make him look.
12:38
Prince Andrew
“I, I admit fully that, that, that my judgement was probably coloured by my, erm, tendency to be too honourable, but that’s (single shoulder shrug 🚩 ) just the way it is.”
The single shoulder shrug, says it all! 😂
12:38
Prince Andrew
“You have to understand that, that, that, his house, I, I described it more as a, a, almost as a railway station, if you know what I mean, in a sense that there were people coming in and out of that house all the time. Erm, what they were doing and why they were there, I had nothing to do with, so I’m afraid I can’t make any comment (single shoulder shrug 🚩) on that because I really don’t know (facial expression of contempt).”
The single shoulder shrug on, “I can’t make any comment”! Prince Andrew, your nonverbals are giving you away, please tell us what you know.
23:20
Emily Maitlis
“She provided a photo of the two of you together, your arm was around her waist. You’ve seen the photo?”
Prince Andrew
“I’ve seen the photograph” (eye block)
He doesn’t like the photo.
Emily Maitlis
“How do you explain that?”
Prince Andrew
“I can’t. Because (single shoulder shrug 🚩, eyelid flutter), I don’t, I have no, again (single shoulder shrug 🚩) I have absolutely no memory of that photograph ever been taken (expression of contempt and wringing hands/stress indicator).”
I love it when I see a ‘shrugger’, becasue their shoulders give away so much. Nonverbals are speaking loudly.
31:11
Emily Maitlis
“So, if Virginia Roberts (accuser) is watching this interview, what is your message to her?”
Prince Andrew
“I don’t have a message for her (eyelid flutter), because (single shoulder shrug 🚩, eye block) I have to have a thick skin. If somebody is (eyelid flutters) going to make those sorts of allegations, then (single shoulder shrug 🚩, eye block) I’ve just got to have a thick skin and get on with it (incongruent head shake). But, they never happened (microexpression of contempt).”
36:28
Emily Maitlis
“You seem utterly convinced you’re telling the truth. Would you be willing to testify or give a statement under oath, if you were asked?”
Prince Andrew
“Well I’m like anybody else (ongoing incongruent head shake), I’d have to take all the legal advice, erm, that there was (wrong tense) before I was to do that sort of thing (distancing language), but if push came to shove and the legal (audibly loud, sudden cough 🚩), legal advice was to do so, then I would be duty-bound to do so.”
Prince Andrew slips into the wrong tense here, “I’d have to take all the legal advice that there was”, instead of ‘is’, then continues in the wrong tense. When people are being deceptive, tenses are often mixed up. I’m guessing here he has already taken legal advice, it makes sense that he would have. Perhaps that advice has been he would need to do so–it just hasn’t come to push and shove as yet.
If you’d already seen the interview, what was your gut feeling at the time? Did you get the impression Prince Andrew was being deceptive? And did you consciously notice anything in particular that led you to that conclusion?
